Is smoking cigarettes ethical?

[gutterfish]

hey brothers and sisters. I am having trouble finding information online about the production of cigarettes. I was wondering if you can help me out. Or, if you know any information off hand about the subject that would be great too! I just quit smoking, mainly for health reasons, but it got me thinking about how cigarette companies are obviously unethical-considering the fact that they market a product with which people are physically addicted to/ a product which actually murders people. But i am thinking more so about who makes these cigarettes, who grows the tobacco, how are those farmers treated, are they paid well etc etc. The people behind the scenes are who I care about. I just feel like its there, but i am having trouble finding info about the subject. So please help, or just discuss your ideas! have a great day/night

[christopher]

all i know is most of it is bad.
lots test on animals
philip morris (marb, parliament, basic, l&m, kraft haha) made a 5 mil contribution to the republican party in the span of 4 years too..dunno if that counts as a reason for you but it would me. i've also read about how certain smaller tobacco companies use some sort of a fair trade partnership - meaning that most don't.
sorry for lack of statistics, numbers, figures, facts. but tobacco companies are huge, and huge companies tend to do bad things..so im sure quitting is a pretty ethical decision.
if i come across some better info or a site, i'll let you know
-christopher

[KillerTOFU]

Yeah if you buy tobacco from smaller companies I don't really see anything wrong with it. Not all companies are as evil as the big ones.

[Mark Fish]

I'm of two minds on the subject of smoking. I quit 20 years ago but my wife smokes American Spirits, when she can get them - chemical free and a small good company. I'd prefer she quit altogether but she is such a high strung person it would probably kill her to quit, so I put up with it and support her right to smoke. On the other hand I have contemplated the spiritual ramifications of tobacco; it being first used by Native American witch doctors as a sacred herb used in their religious rituals to call forth and pray to spirits, believing the smoke would carry their prayers to the spirit world. They would (and still do today) also use it as an offering to the spirits. With Christian whites taking up the use of tobacco with no thought of its spiritual uses, what spiritual curses or blessings has white man brought upon himself?

But, then again, to speak in defense of the first mind; people have a right to smoke if they wish and should not be harrassd continually by self righteous non-smokers. The second mind hates it when selfish smokers foul the air to where I can hardly breath. I don't know what is more unbearable, the self-righteous imposing their righteousness on others or the selfish smokers temporarily fouling the air.

[nabsy]

This isn't really a post to the issue of cigarette companies--though I would agree with Christopher's post--but smoking in radical circles is always something that has puzzled me. I mean I'm not straight edge or anything, but it strikes me as kind of bizarre that so many people who are willing to buck all kinds of systems and fight for liberation would submit themselves to (or at least not even try to give up) an addictive practice that destroys their health whose pleasure is fleeting and ending is ultimately disease and death. Now I'm not meaning to judge anyone but it does puzzle me so I guess I am just using this space to voice my confusion... : )

[Mark Fish]

Speaking now with the pro-smoker half of my mind, and in the spirit of Josie, my better half...
What pleasure is not fleeting and addictive (to some extent) and who's life does not, altimately lead to death? My pleasurable vice is sugar and chocolate and with my heart condition that will probably kill me before smoking kills Josie. Her Grampa started smoking in the 19th century at age 9 and died age 89 and her Gramma said that it was smoking that killed him (she dipped snuff - without Grampa knowing).

To me it seems smoking is a rebels badge of defiance. That and coffee drinking (and an occassional six pack of Sam Adams) is a good hobby for anarchists to engage in. It's the politically correct, straight edge, tobacco free, vegan fascist who are the modern Pharaseses. I tell my straight edge health nut friends that their gonna feel real stupid when they die of nothing.

[nabsy]

Hi Mark -- honestly I've heard those arguments before and I find them to be extremely unconvincing. First, giving the extreme example of one person who died at 89 from smoking, when there are millions and millions of other examples of people dying from painful, expensive cancers, or surviving from huge expensive smoking related transplants does not impress me much (to quote the great Shania Tawin...okay not really great). Smoking is an addiction that is nothing more than a boon for the tobacco industry and the medical industry and if we say we resist the kind of capitalist complex how is it any way a "rebellious" thing to do?

Second, the inevitability of death is in no way an excuse to do things that wither our bodies sooner. Heroin is fun and rebellious and pleasureable as is meth but I certainly don't recommend people go out and do that just because "life is short." Maybe it's my evangelical self but I do believe that we should do what we can to honor the bodies that God has given us and one of the ways to do that is to practice care physical, emotional and spiritual care. Smoking a cancerous joystick seems to me to be not only totally unoriginal and boring, it is also antithetical in my opinion to caring for the creatures that God has created known as ourselves.

Third, there are lots of good rebellious ways to die early--lots of nameless activists who have passed would probably attest to that if they could. And there's nothing wrong with dying from a healthy life either. I think you were probably being funny on that one, but perhaps I am missing or don't see the point of the punchline...

Like I said, I just wanted to raise the question and hope it doesn't start some sticky debate. I just haven't ever understood the argumentation...

[Porter Doran]

A few years ago I was struck with the realization that the Follower does not live in preparation for or fear of death -- no, death would be (as Paul put it) a gain. He or she instead must live in preparation for -- continuing to live. Next year it may be my Master's will that I still serve him: will I be healthier, more knowledgeable, more committed to the work?

In short, death will be a sweet reward, yes -- but while I welcome what others fear, I dare not conflate awareness and abuse. My body was not given me for my own purposes, but as an engine of his work.

Jesus, Exemplar, was first slave, then son (Php ii.7ff).

[nabsy]

Good thoughts Porter... I should say I reread my post and want to say that this really isn't a big deal for me. I know lots of people smoke in the circles I am in and I don't think I've ever given anyone a hard time about it, at least not in any serious judgmental way. It is just something I think about from time to time and wanted to voice that since it came up in a thread. I am not so influenced by my evangelical upbringing (meant to say former evangelical in that earlier post!) to think anyone is going to hell or anything...just wanted to put out my confusion is all : )

[Mark Fish]

I apologies for my macabre sense of humor. I realize the dangers in smoking but also see danger in my judgemental attitudes not just about smoking - which living with Josie has forced me to put into check - but a variety of things. My self work of late has made the subjects of smoking, addiction, remarriage after divorce, homosexual activity, pot smoking, and alcohol abuse interchangeable in order to help me to love more and accept different kinds of Christians. It helps me to be reminded of my afflictions and short comings which Josie is always eager to do whenever I grummble about her smoking. I also agree with Porter (elegently said) about fear of death, though I can't help but feel it sometimes - like I said, my heart condition makes my dietary temptations much more deadly to me than Josie's smoking is to her. Perhaps fried potatoes and chocolate cake are sin to me as smoking is to Josie but she is willing to cut me some slack so that I may live with some quality over quantity. All I am saying is that perhaps we Christians should put up with each others sins more - but not without loving and gentle reminders - its a dilema, I admit. I don't think additional prohibitions in law is going to help, as the push is currently concerning smoking bans. I think it adds to problems.

This is difficult for me to come to terms with having been moved by the relatively recent Holiness movement ala David Bercot. I have stated in this site and elsewhere that legislative efforts should be to, rather than focusing on banning gay marriage or not, ban remarriage instead. This smoking issue and gay issue is the old prohibition vs liberty argument. Holiness movements always have the danger of descending into puritanical tyranny and turning a simple bad habit into a crime, sending it into the arms of underworld criminals. The question is how can we strive for holiness and still accept each other in our particular sins without accepting the sin per se ? Or just give each other some slack and accept the sin while still pointing out that it is sin (missing the target of holiness).

[christopher]

I'll contribute my thoughts later on, just wanted to add my opinion that this discussion is a really good one on everyone's part, I like what people have been saying and the spirit of acceptance I see throughout the forum.

[Porter Doran]

Ought to say: I and my wife smoke pipes sometimes.

[christopher]

Originally Posted by Porter Doran

Ought to say: I and my wife smoke pipes sometimes.

I always thought pipes were rad. I want one like Gandalf has, not for smoking, just to look classy.

[Porter Doran]

Originally Posted by christopher

I always thought pipes were rad. I want one like Gandalf has, not for smoking, just to look classy.

A clay "churchwarden's"? The reason the stems were so long is because clay is so terrible to smoke out of -- it heats up, spits liquid, and generally makes your smoke a scarring experience. The discoveries of meerschaum and briar changed all that and made a smoke a peaceful pleasure.

[Mark Fish]

Originally Posted by Porter Doran

Ought to say: I and my wife smoke pipes sometimes.

I'm shattered!

[Mark Fish]

but seriously...
Here is my other mind speaking against smoking. My main impetus that propelled me through withdrawals when I quit smoking was that I was tired of being a slave to the damned cigarette. Whatever endeavor or activity I planned to engage in from day to day I had to consider bringing my particular brand of cigarettes along with me, and since my particular brand was Export A, I also had to take account of where I might replenish my supply. Sometimes I would have a minor panic attack if I strayed too far from campus (civilization). I hated the idea that a mere 'thing' had such a strong influence on my soul. I wondered what it would be like to be free of such influence. To be like a child again.

Another thing occurred to me was that I could not imagine Christ smoking. Picture this; You think you see Jesus in the distance, and you wonder, 'can it be my Lord?' , but then you see "Him" light up and blow smoke. "No" you say to yourself, "I must've been mistaken."
To the extent that smoking is not ideal, smoking is short of the target and so a sin (the term 'sin' means missing the target).