Goshen College and the National Anthem - Page 2

stefanwarner · #26 02-18-2010

Update from Brenneman.

http://www.goshen.edu/news/pressarch...them2-419.html

Porter Doran · #27 02-18-2010

He seems a master of idle talk.

Andy Alexis-Baker · #28 02-18-2010

this idle talk is meant to wear people down though. "dialogue" is but a code word for "we will talk and talk till you get tired and grow apathetic"

i think that type of tactic is disgusting. Nekeisha is working on a response to that "news release", should be up this evening I think.

850 signatures on the letter so far. I'd urge you to keep forwarding it to friends and family.

BTW: John Roth posted a "modest proposal" http://record.goshen.edu/2010/02/938...ce-john-d-roth

Nekeisha responded: http://www.jesusradicals.com/moderat...l-misses-mark/

Andy Alexis-Baker · #29 02-20-2010

You can print out a copy and take it to church so that people who are not computer savvy can sign it:

http://www.jesusradicals.com/wp-cont...s/Petition.pdf

GrahamS · #30 02-21-2010

A few notes:

There's an AP story that has been picked up by many major media outlets:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100220/...angled_college

The story mentions the facebook group, which has caused an influx of people from a variety of backgrounds. Many have posted their opinions--some for, some against. The pro-anthem camp (mostly non-Mennonite and some non-Christian) repeatedly points to the country, the government, or the military as the source of religious freedom. My understanding of American mythology is that the founding fathers saw the freedom of religion as divinely ordained--and merely codified and protected by the law. It is revealing that God has been replaced by the state as the source of rights in the minds of traditional patriots.

I noticed that some other professors signed up after the first waive--including Peter Dula (EMU) and Alex Sider (Bluffton). With Cavanaugh, that makes at least three former Hauerwas students on the list.

The main site and petition are currently down. Not sure if there has been an influx of traffic or what, exactly.

Andy Alexis-Baker · #31 02-21-2010

I just visited the JR site, and it is not down. We have not received an extraordinary amount of traffic today probably because the AP story did not mention Jesus Radicals by name, but only "a petition." If people registered for the forums from that article, we might have to ban them outright. Mainly we'd do that because I do not believe an online forum can really change the heart and mind of somebody in a nationalist mode except in the rarest of circumstances. That will have to be a long process or real life engagement. The FB page has attracted a lot of unhelpful commentary. But that has thankfully not translated to this site, mainly because the AP article did not mention our site by name. I am glad for that.

The petition has slowed down for the past few days. But I would not want the growth that the AP news would bring anyhow. We want quality signatures, not just any-old body. (There are a lot of former Hauerwas students on there. In addition to your list Chris Huebner is there. A lot of Ekklesia Project folks have signed up.)

That said, I do hope some folks take the printable version to church and gather some signatures. Mennonites, I believe, are overwhelmingly against this type of thing.

Patrick · #32 02-21-2010

The link to that printable petition wont load for me and has frozen my computer each time I have clicked on it.

Andy Alexis-Baker · #33 02-22-2010

I reuploaded it. Hopefully that works for you. I clicked on it and it worked fine for me.

http://www.jesusradicals.com/wp-cont...s/Petition.pdf

Patrick · #34 02-22-2010

It is now opening but states that the file is damaged and could not be repaired.

GrahamS · #35 02-22-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Alexis-Baker

There are a lot of former Hauerwas students on there. In addition to your list Chris Huebner is there.

And now there's the old guy himself.

I've been mulling over how to bring it up at my church. I think I've got things sorted out and will bring the printed version next week.

Andy Alexis-Baker · #36 02-22-2010

Are you able to open the printed version Graham? I think Todd and others there would not be too opposed to you bringing it up. Todd is a good person.

i been arguing on FB this morning with the PR lady

GrahamS · #37 02-22-2010

Yes, there's no problem for me. I will just have to remember to print in landscape format.

Porter Doran · #38 02-22-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Alexis-Baker

i been arguing on FB this morning with the PR lady

I see where she says to you e.g. "Please be careful about questioning motives." This kind of condescension comes from ease in a position of power: "please" can thus be a veiled threat. Of course she has no power over you, but is delivering herself of habit. Anyway, veiled threat from leadership to quell discussion -- or even thinking -- is something I was quite used to in "fellowship" Mennonite circles -- I am sorry to think it is an m.o. of mainstream Mennonite leadership -- but then again, wherever there is power there will be that disease's symptoms.

Andy Alexis-Baker · #39 02-22-2010

Stanley Hauerwas just signed the petition.

GrahamS · #40 02-22-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Alexis-Baker

Stanley Hauerwas just signed the petition.

The old guy I was alluding to

I don't think it will be a problem bringing it up in church. The church is in a tender moment right now, so I just need to be careful how I do it.

stefanwarner · #41 02-22-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Alexis-Baker

Stanley Hauerwas just signed the petition.

I smiled when I saw his name on the petition.

GrahamS · #42 02-27-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Alexis-Baker

Are you able to open the printed version Graham?

Ah, I was able to open it on a PC. Now that I download it on a Mac (which the printer is attached to), the image preview program can't open it. I am downloading a proper version of Acrobat Reader and will report back.

Edit: worked fine using Adobe Acrobat Reader on the Mac. Only got the error using the "Preview" program that's bundled with OSX.

GrahamS · #43 02-28-2010

Got a few signatures today.

For your edification, I will paraphrase some comments that people made:

"I didn't know about this...disgusting."

"They burned anabaptists at the stake...and we're going to cave in to something like this?"

"I have to sign this."

One person thought that the decision violated an agreement the college made regarding a past fundraising project.

Several people said "Thank you for doing this." And so, I pass those thanks on to the petition's organizers.

Andy Alexis-Baker · #44 02-28-2010

Great. It will be interesting to see how many hard copy petitions people send.

Hard to believe some folks didn't know about it at your Menno church. Some of your congregation members signed the petition online previously.

GrahamS · #45 02-28-2010

For the record, only one person told me that they didn't know about it. Several said that they had heard about it.

Patrick · #46 02-28-2010

What do we do with the hard copies?

GrahamS · #47 02-28-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick

What do we do with the hard copies?

Smell them, savor them, etc. That's what I plan on doing. Then I'm mailing them to the address printed on the bottom of the signature page.

GrahamS · #48 02-28-2010

Conservative bloggers chime in: hxxp://spectator.org/archives/2010/02/25/singing-the-national-anthem-at

Replace the xx with tt. I am not linking directly so as to avoid trackbacks and a stupid forum war.

Porter Doran · #49 02-28-2010

" 'What right has one to prophesy, without accepting responsibility for decision-making, management and accountability?' " What does that even mean?

And, it is "theologically sophisticated" to know that "national loyalties ... serve divine purposes"? Even in the most-patriotic of Hebrew scriptural accounts, isn't it the nation that swears allegiance to God and not God the nation?

nabsy · #50 02-28-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrahamS

Got a few signatures today.

For your edification, I will paraphrase some comments that people made:

"I didn't know about this...disgusting."

"They burned anabaptists at the stake...and we're going to cave in to something like this?"

"I have to sign this."

One person thought that the decision violated an agreement the college made regarding a past fundraising project.

Several people said "Thank you for doing this." And so, I pass those thanks on to the petition's organizers.

Thanks Graham...glad that people are responding offline as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrahamS

Smell them, savor them, etc. That's what I plan on doing. Then I'm mailing them to the address printed on the bottom of the signature page.

Etc? I hope that doesn't include drooling!

Seriously though, we'll keep an eye out for them.