Ever been arrested?

[Rob A]

I am your average middle-class white guy from suburban Philadelphia, but I've long held sympathies with those who place themselves on the front lines of the struggle for justice, even if it means breaking the unjust laws of the land in order to uphold God's higher laws. I've never been arrested, but I would like to hear from those of you who have- your experiences, your feelings, your reflections, whatever you feel like sharing. What (if anything) was your cause for which you were arrested? What was your experience like? How did/do you feel toward the officers who arrested you? What was your experience of the legal/judicial process, cognitively, emotionally, or spiritually?

[Marja]

I. have. PTSD.

Oh, they didn't officially arrest me; they just beat me and gassed me.

[Rob A]

What were you doing? What was their cause to do that?

[Marja]

This was at an anti-war protest. I wasn't doing much of anything. They attacked the crowd and I was near the front, and I was pushed from behind. I think I had my legs knocked out from under me, but I ended up on my back.

[glasshaus]

I've also been arrested at protests (mostly anti-war.) I don't have PTSD from it, but I will say that the demonstrations were always peaceful until the police got involved.

They frisk you, hold you forever, book you, hold you until someone bails you out, or hold you until you're arraigned via video if they claim you assaulted an officer.
Then you get a lawyer and they assign you to (of all things) municipal court in front of the traffic judge who gets annoyed that this hearing is in his courtroom, but since you blocked traffic, that's where they send you.
You usually get off on some charges, get pegged for others (as a group- I've never been the only one arrested at a protest and they try us all at the same time.)
Then they let you do community service- and volunteering at your church or for whatever charity you're affiliated with counts, so it doesn't interrupt your routine much.

They don't ask you about medication, but they've also never done a body-cavity search, so I've gotten away with keeping a few doses of my most necessary meds wrapped in cellophane before I go. Not ideal, but you do what you have to. Probably best to stay home if you're diabetic.
-Claven

[glasshaus]

You could, however, staff a legal line, because while it generally takes them 6 hours or more to give you a phone call, they do eventually.

[Keith]

I've been cautioned a couple of times and arrested twice.

My first arrest was for tresspass at the Nuclear Weapons factory in Aldermaston. We were bailed and charges were dropped after about six months, I think. The Police (Ministry of Defence) were polite, friendly, and good humoured throughout as were we. However they were obstructive to the extent that was there job and so were we. I got a nice veg. curry in the cell and by prearrangement my prayer book was dropped in by someone from the support group. This was Easter Day a couple of years ago.

I was arrested recently for a suspected breach of the Queen's peace. The story's online http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co....l/article.html

I have reflect on this latter event and suggested to my Bishop that I was in breach of the pacification but was upholding the biblical peace which includes justice, healing and wholeness.

I'm not a big fan of being arrested and I know just a few Christian activists who romanticise it somewhat. Which is dull of them. i do believe it is necessary / inevitable at times but for different reasons.

Like all these things it is best if there is time to reflect before and after.

I'm also acutely aware that - for the most part - British police are cordial and humane (For the most part!). Friends from other countries have told me what would happen if I behaved similarly there and I would not be here to tell the tale. More likely I would have been less brave.

[Shadowmancer]

Originally Posted by Keith

I'm not a big fan of being arrested and I know just a few Christian activists who romanticise it somewhat. Which is dull of them.

Am I one of those? :P

I was arrested once, at the October 2007 blockade of Faslane, the UK nuclear weapons base in Scotland. I did very heavily romanticise it at the time, and even wrote an article about it, but I suppose looking back I was on kind of a "I'm a Christian Anarchist recently inspired by Shane Cliaborne and now I'm gonna do something about it" kind of kick. I don't regret it at all, and still believe that what I and others did/do at protests like that is both necessary and Kingdom. It was, however, awfully middle-class of me, and while there's not always anything wrong with that, it does need to be acknowledged.

[BackAlleyRadio]

The end goal is not to get arrested, but to change things. Sometimes the two get clouded. If you can change things without getting arrested your life will be much easier. The system is harsh, it doesn't stop as soon as you get out. They have your fingerprints and they will terrorize you for years to come. Fees to pay, warrants to run from, criminal record to explain to employers, can get a government job, or many that do background checks. It's more than a statement. It's a commitment.

[Keith]

Adam you are so *not* one of those. ;-)

I remember reading your reflections at the time and you seemed to me to properly think about what you were doing.

Definitely get arrested isn't an ended in itself, altough it is a permission-giver in some situations for others to break unjust laws and it can have a conversion effect as it changes the way we see the world we live in. So there are good things that can come out of being arrested that wouldn't be possible without it. Some times.

[John Tracey]

I used to be one of those people who romanticised civil disobedience. I have been arrested dozens of times about peace and social justice issues. I have swam in front of warships, been dragged out of sit-ins, participated in illegal marches and public speaking and all sorts of other stuff. I have been bashed, mace-sprayed and gone to gaol (that's how you spell it in Australia).

But on reflection I realised that the purpose of my arrests was not primarily to bring about change but rather to find a personal response for my own anxiety about the terrible things that happen in the world. Being a criminal means being the opposite of a dumb compliant citizen. It was about my own identity and symbolically positioning my own self in relation to all the things that disturbed me, such as pollution, war and poverty.

I do not regret my criminal history for I grew and learnt a lot through the whole process, but this personal growth was really the only consequence of my actions.

As I understand the process of social change today, the real task is hard sweaty work day in, day out, organising particular projects with particular groups of people with particular outcomes in mind. This is where change happens - whatever the issue.

I see a place for civil disobedience when it is part of a real and clever strategy for change, but too often it is seen, especially by christians, as an appropriate response to injustice in and of itself.

The whole process of public protest is just complaining - expressing a personal opinion in public.


Matthew 6:

1 "Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

[Mark_W]

A cop pulled up next to me last night and asked "What's wrong with your bike?" (because I was walking it). I said, "Nothing". He said "Then why are you walking?". I said "Because I wanna walk (with a slight emphasis on 'walk', not angry in tone, but perhaps a bit indignant)." He said "Ok", and drove off.

I should've asked him why he was asking me in the first place. I either gave him the benefit of the doubt (assuming he was genuinely concerned with my making it home), or I was so surprised by the whole incident that I just did the fear-based thing...I don't know. But I am disappointed with how I conducted myself.

[nabsy]

Hey Mark...what would have been the point of asking the cop why he wanted to know why he was asking? I mean you likely know the answer to it already. Not only that, but chances are it probably would have irritated him and he would have used it as an excuse to take it out on you in some way. I don't think our only options in dealing with the police are to be afraid or to be unnecessarily confrontational. He asked you what you were doing, you told him and he moved on. It's not as if by not getting arrested or not getting your face smashed in (and it is very easy for it to get to that point) you weren't courageous. I'm just glad there wasn't any violence... : )

[Mark_W]

Originally Posted by nabsy

Hey Mark...what would have been the point of asking the cop why he wanted to know why he was asking?

Good question. I didn't know his attitude at first...but by his second question "Then why aren't you riding it?". I knew that his intentions were not good, as in he wasn't about to offer me a ride home or anything like a "good cop" would do. So in retrospect I can say, I should have asked him why he was asking me anything, since I wasn't doing anything except walking next to my bike, and nobody should even be slightly "harassed" for that.
Maybe I did do the right thing the first time around, but something tells me I should have known his intentions better or picked up on his tone, and therefore not felt any obligation to answer his questions out of blind obedience, but struck up a conversation with him first.

If he wanted to use his "authority" to question me and considered it my duty to answer his questions, then it would be cowardly of me not to stand up to that...no?

[edit] I think I've figured it out...I answered the first question right, but the second wrong. By the second question, that's when a conversation should've started, because the intentions, at that point, had become more obvious...and sadly I didn't have the courage to involve myself in a conversation that could get him to think about what he was doing.

[glasshaus]

I believe in remaining peaceable. No need to provoke an arrest. Sometimes, in the course of action, it seems kind of inevitable. At those times, non-violence is also essential, even if you have arranged to be non-compliant ie: not give your identity (if you have a large group of people being arrested.)
I don't think being arrested is so glamorous that anyone should seek it- though I think it's good for anyone who's considering making long-term commitments to an organization that may put them at risk for long-term arrest to have the experience so they know what it's like.
However, I think that John Tracey spoke very articulately about his experience, and it expresses what I saw (but could never really pinpoint) as a problem within the Anarchist circle that I used to be a part of. The point didn't really seem to be so much about whether or not these evils were occurring and whether or not we could effect real change. The point was only our position in relation to it.
In fact- if there was nothing to stand against, I don't know what most of them would have done with themselves.
-Claven

[Mark_W]

Originally Posted by John Tracey

I do not regret my criminal history for I grew and learnt a lot through the whole process, but this personal growth was really the only consequence of my actions.

I'll be so (presumptuous?) as to disagree...depending on your mindset, intentions, and attitude at the time. Were you "non-violent" about all this outwardly (as a sort of political tactic) while having anger in your heart towards the people who were the aggressors, (ie, "acting out" like so many young angry anarchists)?

I'm all for Ammon Hennacy's notion of the "One-Man-Revolution", and that is why I wouldn't write off personal growth as the only positive consequence of your actions...but again this all depends on the way you carried yourself at the time.

I'm not sure collective change should be our focus, so much as individual, intra-personal change, and that will naturally lead to collective change.

[glasshaus]

Originally Posted by Mark_W

Were you "non-violent" about all this outwardly (as a sort of political tactic) while having anger in your heart towards the people who were the aggressors, (ie, "acting out" like so many young angry anarchists)?

I don't think we can necessarily assume that John was angry (or not) though I do understand what would cause you to feel it necessary to bring this up. Non-violence doesn't necessarily create love. I wrote a zine years ago, "The Anarcho-Christian," and in it, there is a newspaper photo of me being held to the hood of a squad car by an officer. The caption I put to the side is "I have a mandate to Love this man."
If we are simply not physically violent, while yelling epithets designed to degrade (ie: calling the police "pigs,") instead of trying to teach and effect real positive change than the Gospel is not lived. Even if people are acting like pigs, simply calling them a name is not going to create a positive atmosphere where change can happen. Have we derailed the thread?
-Claven

[John Tracey]

No, I was never angry in the civil disobedience I was involved in. In most cases they were deliberate, role-played, disciplined actions. The photo in this link is of one of my arrests in 1982, but they weren't all as comical.
http://paradigmoz.wordpress.com/2007...risbane-thing/

I do not however believe that the role of non-violent civil disobedience is to communicate or manifest love, there are much more effective ways to do such things and, really, this should be our attitude to everything.

Similarly, our rejection of, or disobedience to the state should not be confined to what we do in public but how we live our total life. The best civil disobedience is that which the state never gets to find out about. e.g. harboring an illegal alien or smuggling messages to and from prisoners has a lot more to do with love than a confrontation with a cop does.

The voluntary confrontation with the cop is all about the ego of the demonstrator, even if it is expressed in terms of sharing love, not about the needs of victims of war and injustice.

Mark,

You said "I'm not sure collective change should be our focus, so much as individual, intra-personal change, and that will naturally lead to collective change.

Can you give an example where individual, intra-personal change has lead to collective change?

I can think of many examples where the opposite is true but cannot see what you might mean here.

[Mark_W]

Originally Posted by John Tracey

The voluntary confrontation with the cop is all about the ego of the demonstrator, even if it is expressed in terms of sharing love, not about the needs of victims of war and injustice.

I would agree, but could it not just as easily be said that the voluntary confrontation of a cop to you is "all about the ego...etc"...? Who approaches who? Because at the end of the day, we will be approached if we just try to live our lives honorably (without the thought of approaching "authority" figures). We know beforehand that a confrontation will, or at least is very likely to, occur, and if that is "all about ego...etc." then I don't see any way around it for any of us.

Can you give an example where individual, intra-personal change has lead to collective change?

Say when someone comes to their senses about being an abusive alcoholic (and say this occured because someone acted very lovingly in the face of such abuse), and then changes their life around so that they are more loving towards those around them. This may not be "collective change" in the sense you may be asking for, do you want a bigger example?

[Mark_W]

Originally Posted by glasshaus

Non-violence doesn't necessarily create love...

The Nonviolence I'm talking about does, but the way you described it, yes, I'd agree that simply not being violent does not create love. But the Nonviolence I'm talking about is love and compassion and that is contagious, absolutely.

[LHM]

Originally Posted by Mark_W

A cop pulled up next to me last night and asked "What's wrong with your bike?" (because I was walking it). I said, "Nothing". He said "Then why are you walking?". I said "Because I wanna walk (with a slight emphasis on 'walk', not angry in tone, but perhaps a bit indignant)." He said "Ok", and drove off.

I should've asked him why he was asking me in the first place. I either gave him the benefit of the doubt (assuming he was genuinely concerned with my making it home), or I was so surprised by the whole incident that I just did the fear-based thing...I don't know. But I am disappointed with how I conducted myself.

Well there you are then - being stopped is being arrested -0 it means to stop doesnt it.
Its important that we normalise this experience - I was walking down the road and someone stopped me to say hello. (I was in fact arrested). No big deal - its not that you are arrested that is the deal its that it is not a big deal. Actually Mark you could say I arrested the police whilst walking my cycle - even better.

[galluppeace]

While I empathize with those that would choose to do that kind of protest, I will never again willingly be arrested at any demonstration. (and I am not upper or middle class but lower working class) I can only state that if there were any strategic or legitimate reasons for middle to upper class/white folks to be arrested it would be to meet those on the inside. I do not find it inspiring when folks do symbolic arrests or be nice to cops, especially in memoirs like John Dear's or The Berrigan Brothers, what I do find inspiring in those memoirs is that they, privileged white folks, come face to face with a reality of brutal oppression and despair and they meet the lowest of the low and see that they are human and have legitimacy. That needs to happen more often.
I would also say that someone who really inspires me is Kathy Kelly, while I disagree with nonviolence as a lifestyle or religion, when I hear her speak or hang out with her, and listen to her stories of being in prison, I can tell that she recognizes her privilege and she consistently challenges it or strategically uses it for those she has been in prison with.

[Alacrity Stone]

[
Interesting questions merit interesting answers. I wrote a song about the experience, or a portion of to be more accurate. You can listen to it by following the link. Forgive my singing and guitar playing!

http://www.tangle.com/view_video.php...32082b1537f3ba

I believe Lee is innocent and continue writing to him, as he now leads the bible
study I started while in the Ottawa Carleton Detention Center. You may write to him as well, if you wish, to strengthen his faith and encourage his reconciliation with Christ.

Lee-Tyler Batson
O.C.D.C
2244 Innes Road
Ottawa Ont, Canada
K1b-4c4

May your sorrow be to good purpose,
your Joy without cause
and divine love be from you,

Alacrity